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100/4 Sump Guard

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Vintage n Classic Avatar
Vintage n Classic Silver Member Geoff Golding
Nelson, Tasman, New Zealand   NZL
Hi all,

Not being one to "reinvent the wheel" so my request is to those who are smarter than "your scribe".....(that would be many I suspect) and who have trodden this path before coming up with a successful solution to the problem.

We all know all Healeys are low but 100/4 cars are lower (by observation) with the sump being arguably the lowest point. The bain of my existence are infernal "speed hump" (they seem to breed like rabbits in our local community) and having been under our car today doing some maintenance, I noted I have very lightly scored the bottom of the sump from front to back.........no actual break but I think it may be a warning.

Looking at the area immediately in front of the sump/motor seems to be uncluttered and the place to put a guard by way of something (plate or rods) between the chassis rails which would act as a guard does on the front of a rail car front wheels. I do not want to go to the point of covering the sump completely which will make accessibility more difficult for e.g. oil changes and filter replacements.....................suggestions and/or photos will be appreciated.

Thanks Geoff

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simon1966 Avatar
simon1966 Silver Member Simon Griffin
.Madison County, Illinois, USA   USA
I am of zero help to you, but since there is so little activity on this particular forum I thought I would contribute with photos of my sump undergoing repair.


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kirks-auto Platinum Member Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   USA
Rather common addenda on road racers. Deep pockets use titainium but 0.25 inch steel plate would be my shade tree answer. Keep in mind you are lowering the target by the addition. The first pic shows what I believe is aluminum Some ideas:



Regards,
Robert Kirk

kirkbrit@yahoo.com

Business phone 563 323 1017
Orders only please 800 547 5747
cell, if you must, and I know where it is 563 940 1864

Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-04 08:35 AM by kirks-auto.

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Qldelsie Silver Member Giles Cooper
Benowa, Queensland, Australia   AUS
Unless you raise the sump slightly, surely by just adding a skid plate you actually reduce the ground clearance even more ? Wouldn't it be better to trim a small amount off the sump ? Surely the small volume lost would be of minor concern except under extreme circumstances ?
I am thinking along these lines for our car, so I am interested in this subject.
Giles

kirks-auto Platinum Member Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   USA
Begs the issue of where you trim and the consequence of then "lowering" the pickup into the sludge area. The guard, a tried and true solution to the issue, timed tested as well, isn't going to be dragging the pavement all the time. But re-engineering is certainly an option...if well planned and executed. smileys with beer



Regards,
Robert Kirk

kirkbrit@yahoo.com

Business phone 563 323 1017
Orders only please 800 547 5747
cell, if you must, and I know where it is 563 940 1864

Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Vintage n Classic Avatar
Vintage n Classic Silver Member Geoff Golding
Nelson, Tasman, New Zealand   NZL
Hi All,

Thanks for the thought so far and I guess I am a little surprised that this topic appears to not have been raised which therefor means that we have some thoughts/discussions to have over a period of time.

Simon.............. yes its a fact we all have a "dinged" sump on our cars, ours has had a worse time via a previous owner(s) of the car) unless you fit an alloy product

Robert...........That was something like I had in mind but not covering the entire sump as the photos appear to indicate

Giles........Yes I appreciate that fitting a guard is going to "lower the car" but given the roads we drive on are generally good, to "ding" the sump guard on occasions rather than the sump all the time is not a cross to carry.........after all the muffler also gets a thump ever so often and I tend to support Roberts view about trimming a piece of the sump to move it up into the "protection" of the Chassis...............the next step is to dry sump the car with tanks, pumps and pipes everywhere...........Don't want to do that to our car.

Anyhow thanks for your comments and we'll see what else we get as time passes.

Cheers
Geoff

Qldelsie Silver Member Giles Cooper
Benowa, Queensland, Australia   AUS
Yes, I guess "normal" roads will be OK. It is just that we are faced with a similar issue for the P2P - We have to get everything out of the way because we WILL be dragging on the bottom all the time ! I looked at the supposed "higher" alloy sumps in the UK last week and with the cooling fins added they seem to be little higher than a standard sump - By my measurements, 6 inches lip to bottom.
We are moving the exhaust right out from under and into the side of the car. a la the works cars.... Then hopefully the skid plate can be flat up against the chassis rails and will be the lowest thing there so we can "skid" along on it !!! smiling smiley

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603000 Daniel S
Addison, Illinois, USA   USA
I like the Idea one poster presented... to raise the oil pan up above the frame rails. It would take some work but would be a viable solution. The oil pan appears vertical on the side walls and would be an easy cut and re weld job. trim out about 1/2 -3/4 of an inch and cut a weld the pan back together. The oil pick up tube for the oil pump should be cut shorter by the same amount as well. After watch all these car shows where they cut cars up... this would not be to radical of an idea actually.
The Healey oil capacity is quite large and may not suffer from the volume change... the dip stick may have to be trimmed and re- calibrated to suit.

Happy Healeying . Dan Samyn

kirks-auto Platinum Member Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   USA
In reply to # 191332 by Vintage n Classic

Robert...........That was something like I had in mind but not covering the entire sump as the photos appear to indicate
...the next step is to dry sump the car with tanks, pumps and pipes everywhere...........Don't want to do that to our car.

Anyhow thanks for your comments and we'll see what else we get as time passes.

Cheers
Geoff

Geoff,
I just grabbed some pics off the internet to illustrate the idea...a simple solution many racers use with out all the exotica of sectioning, channeling and reinventing the wheel so to speak. The contrary idea of re-engineering is doable but you have pick up issues and windage trays with which to deal...might as well do the next step toward dry sump and fatten the sectioned sump pan to hold factory spec of oil. And still you haven't resolved the issue of when the pan just might strike resistance be it pavement or an annoying shed of spares off a Triumph or Porsche or worse, a GM product in forward traffic. winking smiley The skid plate concept takes on all comers, and done right will physically lift the car before risking ripping a hole holding the life blood of a motor at speed. Dents and dings are bad enough but a hole in the sump will destroy an engine in seconds.



Regards,
Robert Kirk

kirkbrit@yahoo.com

Business phone 563 323 1017
Orders only please 800 547 5747
cell, if you must, and I know where it is 563 940 1864

Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

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gramos Avatar
gramos Graham Foster
Kefalonia, Greece   GRC
I have always thought the Healey sump could be modified or re made to fill in the void at the forward section ?
this could allow extra oil capacity which in turn would help oil cooling and it could be made slightly , shallower so as to increase the ground clearance ?
On another angle , are your front springs weak and hence dropped , reducing the ground clearance ?
welding a 3mm plate with a skid ramp at the leading edge would strengthen it cosiderably ,
I have done this to the leading edge of my silencer which has saved it from ripping apart many , many times .

Vintage n Classic Avatar
Vintage n Classic Silver Member Geoff Golding
Nelson, Tasman, New Zealand   NZL
Thanks for the comments Graham.................Yes the forward section of the sump being recessed back up towards the block has been a question in my mind, particularly when you see the alloy sump photos where the sump appears to be the same depth/height all the way along.

The front springs are not too low as this was my first reaction but they check out as being near enough the right height................the skid plate is my choice at the moment and my first post was based on the thought........."Well someone in the membership must have solved this problem" hence the original post.............yes I agree with the skid plate on the muffler and its so effective and so simple for a considerable improvement on the exhausts safety.

Cheers
Geoff

Qldelsie Silver Member Giles Cooper
Benowa, Queensland, Australia   AUS
Delving further into this sump / sumpguard issue, the 100/4 sump has that great big section at the front end where it is raised, making a great "step" in the sump. Why is this ? Is there a sound engineering reason for it ?
If you raised the bottom of the sump by an inch or so so it was above the level of the chassis, and simultaneously made the front of the sump the same depth, you would probably be incressing the total oil volume by a fair bit, more than compensating for the volume lost by raising the lowest point of the sump by 1 inch or so.

Why not ?????? All I am interested in is the engineering aspect, not the originality aspect.

If this was done, then you can fit the sumpguard safe in the knowledge that if you DO bang the sump, then at least the bang is not being transferred dircetly into the sump as there would now be some clearance between the two.

????

Giles

gramos Avatar
gramos Graham Foster
Kefalonia, Greece   GRC
I have often thought about this , more oil = better oil cooling plus better protection with the raised height
but , the oil pump would need to be modified / reduced in height as well .
the cast alloy sumps available are slightly lower in profile , I have just bought one , but are still the same capacity .
it would be a simple mod to weld on an extension to the forward section and could be strengthened and angled up so as to provide
better deflection / protection .

Triggerfish Avatar
Triggerfish Andrew Dineen
Earth, North Wales, UK   GBR
Coincidentally, I managed to put a hole in my sump this week. after repairing it I decided to take the opportunity to reinforce it with a steel plate tack welded directly onto the sump.

This has reduced the clearance by no more than 3mm.

...please excuse the colour I will remedy this asap


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Qldelsie Silver Member Giles Cooper
Benowa, Queensland, Australia   AUS
Yes, the oil pick up would have to be shortened by the same amount that the sump is shortened, I agree. Maybe also the dip stick, but I do not think so. Not an issue I don't believe.

Apparently that big "cut out" at the front of the sump is because the original engine donor (A90 or whatever) had a chassis cross member there, and therefore the sump had to fit around it. So it not there for any other reason, and since "we" don't have a chassis cross member there, we do not need it to be shaped that way. If anyone knows better, or that there is a sound reason for this step, please do advise ! Extending the sump forwards would increase the oil volume considerably.

Re the alloy sump, like the one from AH Spares, yes it is "raised" slightly, but then they added cooling fins to the bottom of it, which brought the overall height (or depth, depending on which way you are looking at it) to be the same as original. Which is why we didn't buy one !! It may be structurally stronger, or even cool slightly better, but it doesn't help us with overall ground clearance.

Giles

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