Visit our Twitter feed for more great content
AHExp

The 3000 Forum

no oil pressure.

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Hi again,

Finally got the battery and cables installed so I tried cranking the motor to circulate some oil. Filled the sump with 6 quarts of 30W, hooked up a starter trigger to the solenoid and cranked it several revolutions.Removed the oil filter canister to see if any oil was being pumped into the filter, nothing.... completely dry. Tried another 10 or 20 revolutions still with the oil filter removed and nothing being pumped to the oil filter. I removed what I think is the oil pressure relief cap and there is no spring no plunger! I included a picture. Is this the oil pressure relief plug? If it is, the spring and plunger must have been lost when I had the block machined. The problem is I'm confused about what is actually missing. From what I have read, there should be a 2.6 inch spring and a plunger that fits into the bore in the block. The plunger is kinda cone shaped and and should mate with a seat in the bore. I would expect the seat to be about 3 inches, maybe less, from the cap. I inserted a 17/64 drill (this was the snuggest fit in the drill index I have, 9/32 did not fit) backwards into the bore expecting it to find a seat. It went in the full length of the drill, about 4 1/2 inches. No seat? Should there be a sleeve inserted into the bore to create the seat? I looked at Moss's internal engine diagram and saw the spring, plunger, and a drain pipe. Did not see a seat. The other question I have is shouldn't I have some oil flow out of the bore when cranking the motor? I get nothing, although I'm afraid to crank to much as I'm afraid the bearings are dry and I'l ruin them. Also, the oil feed for the tach drive is at the very end of the bore. Is the tach drive starved of oil at low RPM or is there always some pressure relief, even at low RPM? Am I way off base here? There's a lot here that doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks,

Steve

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

Attachments:
oil presure relief.jpg    52.8 KB
oil presure relief.jpg

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Hi again,

I was offbase... After crawling around beneath I saw the REAL oil pressure relief CAP. I unscrewed it and the spring and plunger are there. I removed them cranked the engine a few times and nothing... no oil pumping out. With the pressure relief valve completely removed shouldn't I be getting some oil coming out?

Thanks,

Steve

Craig Clifton Avatar
Martinez, CA, USA   USA
That is not the oil relief valve passage. If you look closely in your pic, below the oil filter mount, you can just see the edge of the relief valve passage plug.

If you had nothing to do with the assembly of this engine(I.E. it came with project already assembled), and you don't get oil pressure rather quickly, you may want to go straight to pulling the oil pan for inspection of the pump, pump drive and bearings.

Edit; just saw your second post. Yes you should see oil coming out of the passage for relief valve.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-20 02:57 PM by Craig Clifton.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Craig,

Yea nothing coming out. I assembled the engine over a yr ago. It has new everything. It has been sitting while I stripped and restored the frame, redid the front and rear suspension, rebuilt the trans. I primed the pump before installing, but as I said over a yr ago maybe 2. If the oil all drained out of the pump, would I be seeing this result? Or should it self prime with a couple rotations of the engine?

Thanks,

Steve

RAC68 Avatar
RAC68 Raymond Carbone
NJ, Jersey Shore, USA   USA
Hi Craig,

A while back Pete asked the same question on this Forum and, if I remember correctly, got a few suggestions. The process I used in the late 1980s when completing a Healey rebuild, but not an engine rebuild, after my engine stood unoperated for at least 10 years was as follows:

1. Removed the spark plugs.
2. squirted some oil in each cylinder
3. Filled the filter.
4. Turn over the engine in short spirts until pressure registered on the gauge.

This worked for me and may would for you if all is working properly. But I have heard since that you can pre-fill the pump by pumping oil through the block opening for the oil filter.

However, should this process not bring up oil pressure, you may have another issue and I would pull then pull the pan and examine the oil pump for issues. But, don't mistake not having pressure (a possible gauge problem) for no oil circulation.

A while ago a friend, who had since moved out of the area, had an engine oiler that he plugged with an adapter after pulling the plunger and spring from the relief valve. He indicated that he pumped sufficient oil into the engine to just indicate a little pressure at the gauge. I am not sure how his process worked but I did see him driving his Healey not long after.

Good luck and enjoy your Healey,
Ray(64BJ8P1)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-20 04:45 PM by RAC68.

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
AHAA! Dropped the pan and found that the oil pump drive spindle tang was not inserted in the oil pump drive dog. After looking thru my shop manual, I realized that when I assembled the bottom end, I did not include the thrust washer required between the drive spindle gear and the gear boss machined into the block.. Thinking back, I have no recollection of ever having one. It probably disintegrated and became part of the sludge I removed from the pan during disassembly. I can only speculate that when I rotated the engine, the action of the screw gears driving the spindle pulled the spindle upwards and out of the drive dog since their was no thrust washer to hold it back, pulling the tang from the dog. You know that line that you see in the manual "assembly is the reverse of disassembly". Well, that's what I did. I hate when they say that.... it should say "assembly is the reverse of disassembly and don't forget the thrust washer that disintegrated into the sludge at the bottom of the pan".

Anyway, ordered a thrust washer from MOSS, have a pan gasket from extra set I got by mistake.

Thanks for your help.

Steve

bridunc Silver Member Brian Duncan
Indianapolis, IN, USA   USA
Steve,

One other thing to think about.
If you installed a new oil pump, you should prime it prior to the install. Simple enough by placing the suction side in oil and using a drill to get oil in the gear and pump passage ways.

I did it the (OMG I forgot to prime the pump) way by filling the crank case through the oil pump. I unscrewed the bypass valve, stuck a clear hose into the bypass. (make sure it seats the back of the bypass galley so it will drain through the pump) and poured the last 2 quarts through it.

I had pressure after 5 rotations.

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Brian,

good info,

Thanks,

Steve

RAC68 Avatar
RAC68 Raymond Carbone
NJ, Jersey Shore, USA   USA
Steve,

Carefully, and I mean CAREFULLY slightly loosen the gauge connection when priming the pump to allow oil to get to the gauge. Once a drip of oil is detected at the gauge connection, retighten the connection. This will allow air to evacuate the line and make it easier for the oil to flow through the connection.

I share your sentiment that some reinstallation instructions need more then the statement "Assembly is the reverse Disassembly", but I guess conservation of words rules in the manual industry and just think how large our manual would be. However, a little more definition in assembly steps would help.

Ray(64BJ8P1)

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Ray,

I'm doing a frame up resto. No dash in the car yet. Right now the oil pressure gauge is sitting on the bench and have no Idea if it actually works or not. I have a shop gauge hooked up for now. When I see that I have pressure, I'll hook up the original gauge to see if its still good or not.

As far as my comment on the manual, I was half joking, but do remember a time when my Chiltons and Motor Manual were literally 6 inches thick. They were very finely indexed and had no problem finding the info I was looking for. The troubleshooting portions of these manuals were fantastic. They would take you thru the process while referencing the associated paragraphs within the manual.

Two things the old manuals never said were "assembly is reverse... " and " this procedure is beyond the scope of this manual and must be carried out by the dealer".

Thanks,

Steve.

Westampton, NJ, USA   USA
Just a follow up for those interested....

So I got my thrust washer and installed it. You need three hands to hold the pump, hold the pump drive spindle in the correct orientation, and then get a washer, lock washer, and nut started on one of the oil pump mounting studs. After a lot of cursing, dropping nuts and washers, dropping the spindle, etc., I got it installed. I put the pan up with a new gasket and loaded the pan with oil. I also used an oil gally port on the left side of the engine to fill the oil filter. I have an old marine hand pump used for pulling oil from boat engines thru the dipstick tube. I used it in reverse to push oil into the oil galley, filling the oil filter canister. I cranked the motor under power of the starter only and immediately saw oil dripping onto the tachometer drive gear (distributor is not yet installed). A few more cranks and the distributor tower was filling with oil. I tried hooking up my shop gauge to the oil pressure tube and no luck. I have several fittings but none fit the oil tube fitting. I have one 1/8 BSPT adapter that I thought would fit but only threads a few treads then binds. What threads are these? My original oil gauge reads about 10 lbs of pressure (1/2 way to the 20 mark) while cranking. I think that might be correct for cranking with the starter only?

Thanks,

Steve

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster





Join The Club

Sign in to ask questions, share photos, and access all website features

Your Cars

1960 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite

Text Size

Larger Smaller
Reset Save

Sponsor Links