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Heater delete

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Jackh61 Jack Harryman
Newport Beach, CA, USA   USA
Hi guys,

My 1961 BE is coming along and I'm just waiting to get the motor back and in the car. I live in Southern California so I was planning on not putting the heater back in the car because I really have no need for it. With that being said, is there anything that needs to be done if the heater is not going back on the car? Anything to the engine?

As always I appreciate the help, I would not be able to get this car going without the help!

Jack

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66Sprite Avatar
66Sprite David R
Sydney, NSW, Australia   AUS
Assuming you are removing the fresh air bits / fan too I think the following;
- blanking plate on rear of head where the heater tap was - I guess you could just close the tap
- blanking rubber plug in dash where heater fan control was
- blanking plate over heater inlet in front of battery
- blanking plate over fresh air opening inlet

Perdido Avatar
Perdido Gold Member Rut Rutledge
Tuscaloosa, AL, USA   USA
Jack,
The heater was an option, but I don’t know if it’s better to blank off the valve or run a hose from the valve to the return. Whatever you decide to do in regards to that, leave the intake hose, blower, and heater box in place so you will have a source of cool fresh air from the front of the car. The exhaust can make the floor and tranny tunnel rather warm and insulation helps, but so does cool fresh air to help move it out of the cockpit.
Rut

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earthur44 Eric Miller
Redmond-Bend, OR, USA   USA
Another thought is run heater rad to the front as part of cooling system as they did back in the racing day. all "A" heads are notorious for poor coolant circulation around #4 cylinder... And inland summer CA heat is a cooker. I'd keep the ducting and such for the fresh air around the feet during the summer... a cooker down there... no way around it... insulated or not... AND if your into correctness, the home market could order an special fresh air system only which was a modified collection box along with the ducting and shut off flap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-20 11:27 PM by earthur44.

1961Midget John Bubela
NWConn, USA   USA
I have a Mk II with a marking on the area behind the seats "heater delete". The splash panel where the 4 inch hose goes into the engine compartment is different. The car is in storage, if you are interested in seeing the difference, I can post a photo.

pixelsmithusa Avatar
X2... especially the part about poor circulation at the rear of the head. It's best to provide for circulation by either keeping the heater core in the circuit or just leaving the valve and running a hose back where it normally goes as a complete circuit.

In reply to # 200788 by earthur44 Another thought is run heater rad to the front as part of cooling system as they did back in the racing day. all "A" heads are notorious for poor coolant circulation around #4 cylinder... And inland summer CA heat is a cooker. I'd keep the ducting and such for the fresh air around the feet during the summer... a cooker down there... no way around it... insulated or not... AND if your into correctness, the home market could order an special fresh air system only which was a modified collection box along with the ducting and shut off flap.



Gerard

http://gerardsgarage.com/


Jim Gruber Avatar
Riverview, FL, USA   USA
Gerard,

Unless that heater hose is tied back in and left open, shutting off the valve In the Summer prevents coolant from Circulating around #4 does it not.

I'm seeing an interesting thing going on with Bugsy and with the Temp sensor now in the block rather than in the side of the radiator core. Stant 185 degree thermostat in place. Once Temp gets up to 185 I see the Temp gauge go up to 190 - 195, thermostat opens and temps drop back down under 185. A Continuous cycle every 30 seconds or so. Heater valve currently turned off, Both 6 bladed fan as well as electric fan in place on a new aluminum radiator with a RevoTec in line fan controller. Fan will automatically turn on upon shutting off the engine if temps are above 195.


Is this normal for the thermostat to open and close repeatedly every few seconds. I don't think so. I've got extra cooling capacity with the aluminum radiator but is this anything to be concerned about?



Jim Gruber - Tampa/Riverview FL
Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new -
A truly rust free, garaged in Los Angeles for 57 years Bugeye

Mtn Sprite Layne M
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
Looks to me like the return hose from the heater circuit dumps that coolant back into the intake hose of the water pump and therefore bypasses the radiator. To me that means less overall cooling of the coolant. I have experimented on another car I have with a similar circuit and that was the effect.

The factory heater tap has a shut off valve to be used in warm weather that stops that circulation so I would not think a blank or cable actuated valve stopping the flow would negatively effect cooling. In fact all coolant would now flow through the rad so it should improve cooling. I would think that the coolant does not need to exit the block to provide circulation to # 4 cylinder. Doesn’t make sense with a factory installed shut off valve and typical cooling jacket.

Thermostats usually stabilize when given constant driving conditions and ambient temperatures. If it is constantly opening fully and closing fully it may be defective or perhaps you have too much cooling causing a big and rapid drop in coolant temp causing it to close fully. A thermostat normally does not just pop open and closed. It starts to open at the rated temp and is fully open 10-15* higher than the rating, stabilizing somewhere around rated temp.

Just my observations, I could be wrong

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
I agree with Mr Sprite. running a line from the normal heater take off is common for racers but it should not be plumbed into the intake to the pump. If the coolant has gone through the heater core it has cooled while the bypass has not, it should be plumbed into the top of the thermostat housing so that it heads straight to the radiator rather than the engine. At least that is what I would do.

On the subject of heater deleting. I disagree. As Rut mentioned you are going to want ventilation anyway so why not leave the heater. Some cool morning you may want it to clear the condensation off the windshield even in So Cal and if you ever sell it the buyer will likely want it as well.

Kurt

AN5L Ken G
Oklahoma City, OK, USA   USA
Anybody know where to find OEM BMC heater delete panel to blank off slot in battery tray on Bugeye/Frogeye. Yes, I can make one, just happen to want an original BMC blanking plate for a very original car.

Thanks,

KG

ron1961bugeye Ron Anderson
Philomath, OR, USA   USA
In reply to # 208384 by Mtn Sprite Thermostats usually stabilize when given constant driving conditions and ambient temperatures. If it is constantly opening fully and closing fully it may be defective or perhaps you have too much cooling causing a big and rapid drop in coolant temp causing it to close fully. A thermostat normally does not just pop open and closed. It starts to open at the rated temp and is fully open 10-15* higher than the rating, stabilizing somewhere around rated temp.

Just my observations, I could be wrong

I agree with Layne, the bigger fan and larger aluminum radiator may be result in water leaving the radiator that is much cooler than the thermostat was designed for. Cooler water means a much smaller movement of the thermostat makes a larger temperature difference. This can greatly increase the sensitivity of the thermostat movement. If it is overly sensitive, it will oscillate and be unstable. To return it to stable operation you need to moderate the difference in temperature between the return from the radiator and the thermostat setpoint. Several choices. 1). You can lower the flow to increase the leaving radiator temperature. 2). lower the airflow that's providing radiator cooling. 3).reduce the setpoint temperature. Easiest option to try is lowering the airflow by not using the electric fan unless the engine temperature is high. Perhaps you already have a thermostat switch that runs the electric fan. Increase the stat setpoint to be equal to the mechanical thermostat setpoint. You could put in a lower temperature thermostat that will make the sensitivity less (but no absolute guarantee that the lower setpoint thermostat wouldn't oscillate).

Of course it could be a faulty thermostat that is gummed up or mechanically binding. A new thermostat is not awfully expensive and fairly easy to install. Doing that might be the second easiest fix (after the electric fan adjustment).

Ron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-17 06:33 AM by ron1961bugeye.

lewmac Avatar
lewmac Silver Member Lew McAllan
Hawthorn Woods, IL, USA   USA
1960 Austin-Healey Bugeye Sprite "Buggy" ~ For Sale ! ~
1968 Austin-Healey Sprite "Bluey"
1969 MG MGC "Greeny"
Interesting discussion. In Australia, you can buy the longer radiator hose without the heater take off for the Bugeye style radiator and in fact I have one here, along with a blanking plate. The fact that you can turn the tap off in Summer to stop flow must mean that there is no issue to block it off, IMHO.

In my first Bugeye I ran a 1380 with a manual switch electric fan and even in the heat of summer it rarely needed the fan, maybe at traffic lights if sitting too long. Had that car for over 20 years with no issues.

My Sebring with horizontal flow radiator from the MkIV donor has no heater and no tap, and I am now just running a hose from tap location to radiator hose. Any issue with that ?

I am also not running a thermostat, and once warmed sits at 180-190 during the drives I have taken it on.

Cheers
Lew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-17 08:36 PM by lewmac.


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ron1961bugeye Ron Anderson
Philomath, OR, USA   USA
In reply to # 208435 by lewmac My Sebring with horizontal flow radiator from the MkIV donor has no heater and no tap, and I am now just running a hose from tap location to radiator hose. Any issue with that ?

I am also not running a thermostat, and once warmed sits at 180-190 during the drives I have taken it on.

Cheers
Lew

I would not think running a heater hose bypass would be any issue unless the radiator cooling was marginal for some reason (partially restricted radiator flow, poor pump flow, dirty, plugged up or bent fins on air side, shroud bypass, etc.). Having a heater bypass sends a small amount of the hot engine cooling flow directly back to the engine without going thru the radiator. Normally the radiator system has sufficient capacity and this bypass flow is easily compensated by the radiator's ability to provide a lower return temperature. It would only be an issue with a marginal cooling system or perhaps in extremely hot conditions approaching the design limits of the system.

Ron

Mtn Sprite Layne M
Santa Cruz, CA, USA   USA
I agree, if designed into the system it shouldn’t be a problem. One of the main purposes is to aid with rapid warm up of the eng on cold start which is desireable. I experimented with it by blocking the bypass on a 62 olds I have and it resulting in running too cool. I was chasing an overheating problem that turned out to be timing that was too retarded/not advanced enough. My comment was not meant to infer to block it but to counter the earlier suggestion that the by-pass increased cooling by running through the heater core rather than the rad. Of course in hot weather the manual suggests closing the valve, which stops the by-pass and increases cooling with all coolant routed through the rad by factory design. I intend to install a cable actuated valve so I can better control air flow temp into the cab at all times.

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
Running the heater to help cool the engine is nothing new with Brit cars and something I often had to do with my warmed over MGB. Not at all pleasant for the occupants when it was 100+F out. So if I were to delete the heater and run a bypass hose from the heater valve I would definitely plumb it into the top of the thermostat housing. If you feed it back into the water pump the coolant isn't cooled. Might not cause any trouble but IMO not really worth the trouble to plumb it. Still would not get rid of the heater.

Kurt

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